tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post1093930145084505795..comments2024-03-26T12:56:54.350+00:00Comments on LMS Chairman: The Pope is wrong about Catholic marriages being invalidLatin Mass Societyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17951084157414901564noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-50483652693586460712018-02-04T16:46:56.523+00:002018-02-04T16:46:56.523+00:00You don’t seem to have noticed that Athelstan and ...You don’t seem to have noticed that Athelstan and I are *defenending* the ability of the ‘peasants’ to get married validly. Joseph Shawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06587987442560784792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-43807000312378308742017-02-08T12:25:03.472+00:002017-02-08T12:25:03.472+00:00Wow, I know this is way late to finally reply, but...Wow, I know this is way late to finally reply, but way back in time before the modern elimination of basic catholic catechesis, all catholics knew the basics about our faith. We didn't need to give long theological explanations but we knew our faith. I never said you need to be able to give a elaborate theological definition of the sacrament of matrimony to enter into it. Folks just need the basics and if those basics are learned and known, they can easily be explained to others, that is the nature of evangelisation we all do it naturally, or used to anyway. Parents teach children, teachers teach children, priests teach their parish. This is evangelisation and it is powered by our own love of Christ. Love for Christ causes this to naturally flow outwards to others in our lives. It doesn't happen because many folks these days are smouldering wicks and not bright shiny lamps. The claim that ignorance serves God in anyway is ridiculous. Medieval peasants? You're stereotype of laypersons not born in the modern age is nauseating. Do you think this highly of all persons of the past? The truth is that the priest of the mere peasant took his time to actually educate the intending couple so that they would and could enter into their marriage in the way Christ intended when he interviewed them before the wedding. If they were lacking in knowledge, he provided it. That is why he could actually stand up in the congregation and witness for the Church, which means he swears to God at that moment in his life, that these two persons are ready, willing and able (no theologian will dare to touch that simple definition) to get married. Yeppers. When the priest announces, "You may kiss your bride." to all watching, he has just sworn to God publically that these persons are capable of entering valid sacramental marriage and his eternal salvation is dependant on this action. It is a mortal sin on him if he hasn't done all his Christian duty demands of him as a priest of God up to this point in time. When a couple presents themselves to be married to a priest, he has agreed to help them enter into the Sacrament validly. It isn't just finding an empty spot in the parish calendar to fit them in. He is required to make sure they know exactly what they are going to do. The validity of their sacrament is in his hands at this point. If he loves Christ, he will naturally engage the engaged couple to find any faults that may impede or even nullify their intended sacramental bond. If you haven't noticed, few priests actually bother with the couple anymore, accept to make the paperwork works. An invalid marriage passed off as if it is a Sacrament is just as much a failure of the priesthood as it is the couple. This is another of the reasons why this issue gets swept under the rug and dismissed. Sorry for the late reply. God bless. Ginnyfree.Ginnyfreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15954428424779529387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-16439162112118112932016-06-18T19:32:06.634+01:002016-06-18T19:32:06.634+01:00Jorge Mario Bergoglio, of course!
Jorge Mario Bergoglio, of course!<br />Filomenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16483459411989853412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-71079859307073822942016-06-18T17:10:26.682+01:002016-06-18T17:10:26.682+01:00A Pope does not have to be a theologian but he doe...A Pope does not have to be a theologian but he does have to be a Catholic! Bergoglio is neither.sedelondonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13282326776240751174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-82764718059360934102016-06-18T12:31:51.219+01:002016-06-18T12:31:51.219+01:00I am tired of sycophantic half-wits who will const...I am tired of sycophantic half-wits who will constantly attempt to justify, spin and excuse the most diabolical heresies, ambiguities and errors through misguided human respect and false piety, merely because the one who utters them is the "Pope".Deacon Augustinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03549825303646357455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-27446028582562369332016-06-18T12:02:14.504+01:002016-06-18T12:02:14.504+01:00Jorge Mario Bergoglio, of course!
Jorge Mario Bergoglio, of course!<br />Filomenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16483459411989853412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-78081128352057595392016-06-18T09:22:29.131+01:002016-06-18T09:22:29.131+01:00I do not comment on the opinions of the current Ho...I do not comment on the opinions of the current Holy Father, although more than happy to do so with regard to the other previous 265 ones .<br /><br />However, marriage is indissoluble and is for life, regardless of problems of any kind, illness, financial, faithlessness, imprisonment and so on.<br /><br />Life can be for 6 months, say a car crash, or another 80 years, who can say?<br /><br />Now that is a relatively easy concept to understand. It can, and should be put to each prospective partner, individually, by the priest some time before the marriage. The very few people who cannot understand this, possibly about 1% of the population are of defective mind and not able in any case to enter into a valid marriage.<br /><br />If anyone says no to this then they should not be married and indeed the marriage would be openly invalid from the start.<br /><br />That is Church doctrine and must be the starting point of any procedures on marriage by any Catholic. <br /><br />ps : what Argentinian peasants or any others, get up to is irrelevant. Jacobihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04743062941733814176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-33579330240209564182016-06-18T05:04:03.558+01:002016-06-18T05:04:03.558+01:00No, he is definitely NOT a theologian, but then as...No, he is definitely NOT a theologian, but then as a Catholic man, much more so the POPE, he's not supposed to be a heretic, either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-64241523583020886082016-06-17T22:18:41.329+01:002016-06-17T22:18:41.329+01:00Have you casually asked any adult Catholics if the...<i>Have you casually asked any adult Catholics if they can tell you what makes for the Sacrament of Matrimony?</i><br /><br />As Dr Shaw says, validity doesn't require all of that. Really, how many typical medieval peasants - or for that matter, even artisans or nobles - could have provided a clear theological definition of matrimony? And all of those marriages were always presumed to be valid by the Church. It is for this reason that Dr Shaw's recalling of Pope Benedict XVI's warning about the danger of "falling into an anthropological pessimism" about the innate capability of modern Catholics to even enter into marriage. <br /><br />Pope Leo XIII put it succinctly in Casti Connubii (1931): "[F]reedom, however, regards only the question whether the contracting parties really wish to enter upon matrimony or to marry this particular person; but the nature of matrimony is entirely independent of the free will of man, so that if one has once contracted matrimony he is thereby subject to its divinely made laws and its essential properties." (CC #6) <br /><br /><i>Maybe then they'll start educating people so they can actually enter into valid sacramental marriages again.</i><br /><br />And exactly whose fault is it that these Catholics haven't been properly educated about marriage, or for that matter, the faith? And given comments then-Cardinal Bergoglio made about such marital failures in Buenos Aires, it might be fair to ask him about his role as chief shepherd there, too. How much educating did *he* do as a shepherd of his flocks?Athelstanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346012062816580296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-74413482942028382152016-06-17T22:08:55.217+01:002016-06-17T22:08:55.217+01:00"Pope Francis often speaks pastorally"
..."Pope Francis often speaks pastorally"<br /><br />I think that Dr Shaw and Ed Peters, among others today, have given some compelling reasons why these remarks will actually do much more pastoral harm than good - whatever the Pope's intentions may have been.<br /><br />And there's nothing pastoral about <i>that</i>.Athelstanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346012062816580296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-40330062906230494712016-06-17T21:57:58.044+01:002016-06-17T21:57:58.044+01:00A theological understanding of the sacraments is n...A theological understanding of the sacraments is never necessary for their valid use. Anglicans can get married validly and Methodists can validly baptise. Look up the conditions of validity for yourself. Joseph Shawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06587987442560784792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-90979746579331956382016-06-17T20:54:41.696+01:002016-06-17T20:54:41.696+01:00I'm inclined to believe him on this particular...I'm inclined to believe him on this particular issue. Have you casually asked any adult Catholics if they can tell you what makes for the Sacrament of Matrimony? Nine times out of ten, you get a quizzical look and no solid explanation. If they cannot tell you what makes for a Sacrament, I'm bettin' they knew even less the day they entered into it. If you don't know the basics, how can you swear to God on that day to keep it? Hello? You have to know about this before you enter into it for it to be valid. And that basic ignorance is why he's drawn the conclusion that he has. Way to go Francis! Get 'em mad as all get out. Maybe then they'll start educating people so they can actually enter into valid sacramental marriages again. God bless. Ginnyfree.Ginnyfreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15954428424779529387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-65139999683624409292016-06-17T15:30:44.434+01:002016-06-17T15:30:44.434+01:00What happened to mortal sin? Is this now no longe...What happened to mortal sin? Is this now no longer valid...thus the sacrament of reconciliation - confession - no longer needed? Who will be "accompanying" all the poor souls as they descend into the darkest abyss of all .. called Hell? Truth Seekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17476117416532483117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-18017483742172764422016-06-17T15:28:55.103+01:002016-06-17T15:28:55.103+01:00What happened to mortal sin? Is this now no longe...What happened to mortal sin? Is this now no longer valid...thus the sacrament of reconciliation - confession - no longer needed? Who will be "accompanying" all the poor souls as they descend into the darkest abyss of all .. called Hell? Truth Seekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17476117416532483117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-70729165946779320132016-06-17T15:14:44.304+01:002016-06-17T15:14:44.304+01:00The Pope is wrong - finally you can say it!The Pope is wrong - finally you can say it!Geraldine Lamonthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00572869471781076783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-86405409561704363412016-06-17T14:54:30.433+01:002016-06-17T14:54:30.433+01:00I do not think the Holy Father has to be a theolog...I do not think the Holy Father has to be a theologian. That's a slightly more dubious qualification than being a Papal Diplomat. Canon Lawyers seem to make reasonably articulate popes on the whole. What no pope is or should be is the world's parish priest. That is slanderous ultramonantism run amok.<br /><br /> "I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren.”Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06363318180422350564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-61986168877651950772016-06-17T14:48:13.151+01:002016-06-17T14:48:13.151+01:00He's not a theologian, he's not speaking a...He's not a theologian, he's not speaking authoritatively, he's not got a prepared text... so why do you object to people saying he's got it wrong?Joseph Shawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06587987442560784792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-40085405209163816922016-06-17T14:36:03.142+01:002016-06-17T14:36:03.142+01:00I am tired of Know-it-all Catholics taking the pop...I am tired of Know-it-all Catholics taking the pope to task for this that and the other. This is a modern trend and an unsavoury one. Pope Francis often speaks pastorally and without a prepared text. He is not the theologian that Pope Emeritus Benedict is - nobody said he needed to be. Not everything he says has to be an ex cathedral statement. Sometimes, he is just being being the world's Parish Priest.<br />Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01677364020623164819noreply@blogger.com