tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post4433772110725103429..comments2024-03-26T12:56:54.350+00:00Comments on LMS Chairman: The joys of polarisationLatin Mass Societyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17951084157414901564noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-32960366462039139162017-01-10T10:18:25.286+00:002017-01-10T10:18:25.286+00:00A subtle mistake: to limit the Magisterium of the ...A subtle mistake: to limit the Magisterium of the Church just to the <b>living</b> ecclesiastical authorities... actually, the Magisterium of the Church is composed <b>especially</b> from those popes and bishops who are in Kingdom of Heaven... and they are more than those who are on earth. Consequently, any real Catholic ought to believe any teaching of this perennial Magisterium - which is really guided by Our Lord and King, Jesus Christ. If any ecclesiastical authority - even a pope - is not faithful and loyal to those teachings of his predecessors who were proclaimed and confirmed by the Church in different historical contexts as true teachings of Jesus Christ, he cannot be followed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-87513246857152107272017-01-08T18:06:24.419+00:002017-01-08T18:06:24.419+00:00I assume this is intended sacastically. The teachi...I assume this is intended sacastically. The teaching of the Church is that black is black and white is white.Joseph Shawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06587987442560784792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-34518345316739744462017-01-08T15:28:36.143+00:002017-01-08T15:28:36.143+00:00We interpret Church teaching according to the livi...We interpret Church teaching according to the living magisterium. I think most Catholic forgot that we don't do private judgement, wither of scripture or tradition. If this is the true Church of Christ if they say black is white it is. Either the Lord is testing our faith or Catholicism is false, for faith is believing even those things we can't see simpy because God said so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-52521543973333713712016-12-23T05:02:25.140+00:002016-12-23T05:02:25.140+00:00Great analysis.Great analysis.Scott Woltzehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13112547391607836919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-55275045832944845382016-12-22T19:37:55.727+00:002016-12-22T19:37:55.727+00:00That's certainly possible - the Vortex is very...That's certainly possible - the Vortex is very much his personal programme - but if memory serves he does seem to take an active part in the AL discussion on at least one of the recent Download episodes. He began that discussion (16 Nov.) with saying something like, "Now at last the competent commenatators on AL - the four Cardinals - are tackling the issues we can legitimately discuss the case for their challenge." <br /><br />What is beyond doubt is that CM is now firmly on the side of those who are very concerned by what AL says and how the Pope is responding to that concern, as well as being highly critical of those who are attacking the 4 Cs for their challenge. <br /><br />This has to be good news, it seems to me.Atticushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03537205387276510875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-75407543417655349602016-12-22T18:58:53.232+00:002016-12-22T18:58:53.232+00:00I might take a stab at it (as a former "conse...I might take a stab at it (as a former "conservative"):<br /><br />The major premise which so many conservatives seem to have adopted was one of obedience - obedience to the Pope above all. It did, indeed, amount to a kind of ultramontanism, one which had been developing since the 19th century, but was also in reaction to the main characterization they could make of liberal dissenters: "disobedience." So we'll do the opposite.<br /><br />And from Humanae Vitae onward, the papal line seemed to be that quite a lot could be open to change, ad intra and ad extra - the liturgy, catechesis, ecumenical and interreligious relations, priestly formation, social teachings, and so on. But one thing the Church would remain constant on was moral doctrines (well, more or less). And so long as Popes did just that, the way was clear for <i>obedience</i> to reign with a clear conscience, even if the actual result was a kind of sacramental Protestantism. And that is just what happened from 1968 to 2015 or so. <br /><br />But now we see this final pillar getting chopped. So many devotees of John Paul II planted their flag on this hill, from the JPII Institutes on down to Catholic Answers and parish "JPII priests" (and yes, many Patheos bloggers). If even marriage, sexual morality, and the Eucharist are now up for grabs, that hill is now naked, save for the person of the Pope. Maybe that's still enough for Mark Shea to withstand the winds, but it's becoming an ever more awkward stance for a man who has devoted his career to an activity (public evangelization) that the incumbent pontiff seems to regard with great disdain.Athelstanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346012062816580296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-53879861797948995932016-12-22T18:42:59.186+00:002016-12-22T18:42:59.186+00:00"Prior to Amoris Laetitia, such Catholics alw...<i>"Prior to Amoris Laetitia, such Catholics always regarded the Pope as their bulwark against heterodoxy."</i><br /><br />It may well be that Hilary White is correct in thinking that this was a *necessary* pontificate for a lot of Catholics. <br /><br />And I don't even mean "necessary" in the sense that it will make them all wake up and flee to traditionalist fortresses (though obviously more Catholics discovering the treasures of tradition is welcome, and some have done so in this pontificate). I merely mean that it is necessary for many (including more than a few trads) to rethink the instinctual ultramontanism so many have assumed over the past five decades and more. More rethinking about other questions can develop down the road.Athelstanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07346012062816580296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-14900460730462957762016-12-22T17:00:55.597+00:002016-12-22T17:00:55.597+00:00I always thought Francis was a Peronist, in style ...I always thought Francis was a Peronist, in style and politics, but Ivereigh confirms it. Thanks for the link.John Seilerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03795977089953532965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-30413314325626190652016-12-21T11:48:11.801+00:002016-12-21T11:48:11.801+00:00A very fair question, which only the conservatives...A very fair question, which only the conservatives at issue can answer. It is fair to say, of course, as I have set out on this blog, that Mulieris is pretty vague. And I suppose they'd say that calling the 6th Commandment into question is as serious as it gets. Joseph Shawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06587987442560784792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-28268115766569869582016-12-21T11:45:22.017+00:002016-12-21T11:45:22.017+00:00Glad to hear it. I just looked at the list of rece...Glad to hear it. I just looked at the list of recent Vortex episodes and there was nothing about the dubia. Is Voris keeping his vow privately, and not imposing it on Church Militant as a whole?Joseph Shawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06587987442560784792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-32977752820948292972016-12-20T18:29:00.192+00:002016-12-20T18:29:00.192+00:00"When a pope has made it clear that his perso..."When a pope has made it clear that his personal view is something nor really consistent with the Tradition--Paul VI on the liturgy, John Paul II on the death penalty or the authority of the husband over the family--they have tended to side with the Pope against Tradition, despite the fact that the Papal statements on the subject tended to lack magisterial weight."<br /><br />Speaking of which, why is *this* suddenly a bridge too far? JPII's musings on patriarchal authority refuse on principle to take seriously the entire corpus of Catholic tradition, thought, and teaching on the topic, yet nearly no one objected then or objects now to them. Amoris Laetitia may even be more defensible than Mulieris Dignitatem, if anything.Sean W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10085184456489549231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-3818142051538170212016-12-20T17:42:46.198+00:002016-12-20T17:42:46.198+00:00"[Church Militant's] 'Vortex' vid..."[Church Militant's] 'Vortex' videos have continued studiously to avoid the subject of the dubia, which has been covered for them, as far as I can see, by Christine Niles."<br /><br />Actually, I have been enormously edified to see that CM is now batting pretty vigorously for the 4 Cardinals and their dubia, especially on their discussion panel show "the Download" (e.g., the episodes of Nov 16 and Dec 7, available in full to subscribers here: http://www.churchmilitant.com/video/archive/the-download). <br /><br />Nothing mealy-mouthed of late in their criticism of the situation Amoris L has put us all in.Atticushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03537205387276510875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-221072702841950992016-12-20T09:33:00.004+00:002016-12-20T09:33:00.004+00:00Definitively, Our Lord Jesus Christ makes things c...Definitively, Our Lord Jesus Christ makes things clear (especially to address doubtful thoughts about "the justice owed to those spouses and families abandoned by divorce") through His Own teachings: "...he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery" (Matthew 19:9). So, if God himself allows for someone's faith to be tested through the "defection" (i.e. adultery) of his/her wife/husband, that person must accept with patience such a difficult situation and must continue to pray for the conversion and repentance of that one who has abandoned his/her family. And this <b>without</b> getting "re-married". In fact, Our Lord himself was many times betrayed by His people, and He never has abandoned them/us... a priest ought to strengthened those abandoned spouses and teach them how to live - as single persons - a holy life. And I assure you that that is not impossible, even though sometimes is really difficult. But for the Holy Spirit nothing is impossible...I can swear it. May Our King and Lord Jesus Christ help you, Father, to deal in a real Catholic manner with such difficult situations!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-57256451514430593862016-12-20T08:59:14.814+00:002016-12-20T08:59:14.814+00:00There has been a huge shift in a very short time, ...There has been a huge shift in a very short time, and non-traditionalist conservative Catholics are having to process a massive (and very disconcerting) realisation.<br /><br />Prior to Amoris Laetitia, such Catholics always regarded the Pope as their bulwark against heterodoxy. No matter how crazy things were locally in parishes, seminaries, dioceses or bishops’ conferences, the Pope (they thought) was on their side. With this bedrock to support it, their Catholic faith held together. But this type of ultramontanism is now untenable, as Francis is clearly pursuing (or abetting) agendas which would have horrified John Paul II. What happens when the figure who is supposed to be the bedrock―who does all your thinking for you, as it were―comes out on the side of the nutty liberals whose views you have always despised?<br /><br />The key issue now is whether Edward Pentin is correct in his analysis that the unanswered dubia could lead to what he describes in his interview with Regina Magazine as “a fairly rapid unravelling of this pontificate.” Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing depends entirely on whether the successor of Francis is Bergoglio Mark II or whether he is a less polarising and more conventional figure. We hope and pray for the latter.Francishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13769697942265014482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-20844851957003680562016-12-19T17:24:22.122+00:002016-12-19T17:24:22.122+00:00Thank you for voicing the point I have been making...Thank you for voicing the point I have been making, "what is a Pastor, and where are they?" I have been ordained 10 years this May, 9 those years serving as a Pastor; I have assisted dozens in the annulment process, all of which were granted, with a second review. It is painful for people to be denied the sacraments, but the Church can't "fix" everything this side of heaven and people know that. Further what about the justice owed to those spouses and families abandoned by divorce? Keep up the good work. Fr. Stevenskingsburycatholichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14452254213938978538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-83023623938658386832016-12-19T14:21:13.326+00:002016-12-19T14:21:13.326+00:00A must read is Ivereigh's latest:
https://cru...A must read is Ivereigh's latest:<br /><br />https://cruxnow.com/analysis/2016/12/16/francis-80-redeemed-leader-looks-like/<br /><br />It is beyond all belief; Ivereigh praises Pope Francis for being a Peronist politician.Nicolas Bellordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08063019108964247676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-87725998225854432572016-12-19T13:43:56.716+00:002016-12-19T13:43:56.716+00:00Joseph, thank you for this excellent point. Indeed...Joseph, thank you for this excellent point. Indeed, I can say that after my conversion from the Eastern schismatic "orthodox" Church to the Catholic Church, I have gone through this process - from "conservative" Catholicism to "Traditionalist" Catholicism. Now, I will emphasize that there are not two fundamental, different types of Catholicism. Just one, committed to the perennial authority of the Tradition - the presence of the Holy Spirit in history - under who's guidance every ecclesiastical authority has to act. What is incredible important for us is the understanding that this ineffable presence has His Own expressions in the universal history: the Gregorian Liturgy, for instance, is one of this "expressions". The Holy Bible is another plenary "expression" of this divine presence. Works like "Civitate Dei", "Summa Theologica" and "Theologia Moralis" are - to say the least - partial expressions of this presence and action of the Holy Spirit in the context of our history. That is why we cannot accept their elimination/changing for the sake of those theologians who want to adapt to the modern "values".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com