tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post6495190547497769623..comments2024-03-26T12:56:54.350+00:00Comments on LMS Chairman: Marriage: Cardinal Kasper's options - a critiqueLatin Mass Societyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17951084157414901564noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-27505279195441957832014-03-07T00:59:38.312+00:002014-03-07T00:59:38.312+00:00You know, I would even recommend sending the schol...You know, I would even recommend sending the scholarly critique directly to Pope Francis himself, citing Canon 212 #3. If written politely and respectfully, who knows what good it could do?Kurt Poterackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13902668564153232842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-68602720386383118282014-03-07T00:46:52.626+00:002014-03-07T00:46:52.626+00:00"Orthodox Catholics are right to worry about ..."Orthodox Catholics are right to worry about this: to pray, to do penance, and to prepare some kind of response . . ."<br /><br />First, the preparation of a serious, scholarly response to Card. Kaspar should be sent to all of the participants in the synod. Nay, even all bishops. Someone should organize this. Roberto de Mattei's response should at least be a starting point: <br /><br />http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/03/what-god-hath-joined-together-and.html<br /><br />Secondly, organization of cardinals and bishops both to head things off at the synod and, perhaps even to meet with Pope Francis himself. (This is, of course, beyond our abilities as laymen. I hope someone in the hierarchy is thinking of this. Of course these things have to be done discreetly, but I wonder if Cardinals Mueller or Burke could be rallying points.)<br /><br />Finally, it may be providential that this happened when it did. Now we know what is under attack. Not so much, as we first thought, the traditional liturgy, not even bad curial reform, but marriage. There are seven months - maybe even seven months plus one year. I am under the impression that nothing much will be done until the second synod in 2015 - although I could be wrong on this.<br /><br />God help us.Kurt Poterackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13902668564153232842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-63327159689469395882014-03-06T12:44:33.016+00:002014-03-06T12:44:33.016+00:00Kasper's errors are so egregious that most peo...Kasper's errors are so egregious that most people don't even notice the lesser lies, false dichotomies and straw men lurking among them, He has basically put the case that if we don't adopt his proposals then we are reducing Holy Communion to "a reward for good behaviour". That is a vile and snide slur on all those who do nothing more than remain minimally faithful to the marriage vows they have made before God. I can imagine him with the heart of the devil mocking those who have simply remained married to their one lifetime spouse, patting them on the head and saying "Oh what good little children you are."<br /><br />If we take his comparisons of murder and adultery seriously, then the only logical conclusion would be that he thinks a serial killer can receive a valid absolution in Confession all the while he is intending to go out and murder again.<br /><br />In the space of one speech he has drawn up a charter for bigamy and adultery, undermined the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony, made a nonsense of the Sacrament of Penance and denigrated the Sacrament of Holy Communion. If the Holy Father really does support him in this then we should all start praying for their early resignations now. <br />Deacon Augustinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03549825303646357455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-64334811250073300812014-03-06T09:10:08.105+00:002014-03-06T09:10:08.105+00:00Given the unanimity of the Fathers, let alone the ...Given the unanimity of the Fathers, let alone the definition of Trent, there is no question *at all* about indissolubility being a dogma. Joseph Shawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06587987442560784792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-29530789544918469632014-03-06T07:47:28.327+00:002014-03-06T07:47:28.327+00:00I ought to add two other facts.
Since the Orthodo...I ought to add two other facts.<br /><br />Since the Orthodox churches theology concerning marriage had already reached a point where it allowed remarriage by the 9th and 10th century, during times when it was recognized as being in communion with Rome, and yet Rome did not condemn it, this suggests that this is not a matter of dogma.<br /><br />Actually, almost all the Greek Catholics relied on the Orthodox nomocanons until the promulgation of the first Code of Canons in 1917. For a few, the Orthodox disicpline may have been maintained even longer. <br /><br />Dr. Vigen Guroian says:<br /><br />"In the ninth century, Emperor Leo VI (886–912) mandated that all marriages be sanctioned by a church ceremony. A marriage that was not blessed by the Church would not be considered a marriage. Some received this gesture as a great achievement toward the complete Christianization of the Empire. It presented serious problems for church discipline, however, and forced compromises upon the Church that blurred the distinction between church order and secular order and between marriage as a sacrament for baptized believers and marriage as a legal contract. We have been living with these compromises for over a thousand years.<br /><br />There is one compromise the Church would not and could not make, however, lest it forfeit completely its identity as the Body of Christ in the world. And that was the admission of non-believers, the unbaptized, and known sinners to the Eucharist. In order to mitigate this problem, the Church developed a rite of matrimony separate from the Eucharist."Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11471650005449587155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-76879134492877217322014-03-06T07:18:23.118+00:002014-03-06T07:18:23.118+00:00Hmm, I don't understand marriage theology very...Hmm, I don't understand marriage theology very well. Is the Orthodox marriage position truly heretical? To a certain extent, I do not understand how remarriage is granted if the spouse dies, but not if they live. In the Byzantine tradition whether they live or die seems to be immaterial. I honestly do not think that either the Latin tradition or the Byzantine tradition on marriage is fully consistent or without flaws. Marriage took a longer time to have blessings and liturgy composed for it as a sacrament than the other sacraments, it's later development points to me to an underdevelopment ultimately. Perhaps because less divorces took place in the past, less explanation for how to proceed was needed as often or as clearly as now, when it has become epidemic.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11471650005449587155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-72987301715592952252014-03-06T00:18:39.985+00:002014-03-06T00:18:39.985+00:00Thank you for this article. It is strangely comfor...Thank you for this article. It is strangely comforting to see that I am not alone in thinking all of this looks insane. I don't even understand why the Church has to even discuss this issue on remarriage again. It just makes everything about the Church teaching unstable. Today it is remarriage. Tomorrow it could be contraception (already indicated in his interview today). The next day it could be same sex marriage and then maybe even abortion. So is anything worth standing up for when God's mercy seems to be allowing for anything to be accepted in the name of being pastoral? <br />T-C-https://www.blogger.com/profile/08263638091427859851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-27506119172978662622014-03-05T22:28:00.585+00:002014-03-05T22:28:00.585+00:00The current situation is the Church turning a blin...The current situation is the Church turning a blind eye to those who should be denied Holy Communion. Cardinal Marx is proposing institutional acceptance of mortal sin.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00167443887449854135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-86938218295087720632014-03-05T22:14:05.878+00:002014-03-05T22:14:05.878+00:00It could just be a matter of turning a blind eye. ...It could just be a matter of turning a blind eye. Christ didn't promise that His pastors would be zealous. Joseph Shawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06587987442560784792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-57936210286090731782014-03-05T21:58:20.161+00:002014-03-05T21:58:20.161+00:00I don't see how the "offered solution&quo...I don't see how the "offered solution" could possibly be implemented as the official discipline of the Church without impairing the Church's indefectability. You can't do that without overthrowing one or more of the teachings that 1) one must be in a state of grace to receive the Sacrament; 2) marriage is indissoluble; or 3) extra-marital sexual relations are gravely sinful. <br /><br />The same goes for Cardinal Kasper's Second Option.<br /><br />The only thing we could get is #1, the rubber-stamp annulment process. That would be terrible, but it's not quite the same.Titushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01905201479928703850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-5738224610540533722014-03-05T18:19:38.995+00:002014-03-05T18:19:38.995+00:00As much as this is all greatly distressing in term...As much as this is all greatly distressing in terms of the fiddling with the clear teaching of the Church, the idea that there could be some latent "impediment" or other species of blockage or defect to the flow of God's grace into the sacramental life, to the degree that we might in fact only have a natural marriage, has been a severe jolt to my conscience. Many important realizations have come about because of it. However, I do not welcome the prospect of several months of waiting for the which way the higher ups in Rome are going to rule. <br /><br />I'm simply not going to wait. My wife and I have booked a meeting with our priest to investigate whether or not there would be any of these defects. I have no idea what he will make of our request for clarification on this matter. I am hopeful he will take it seriously. <br /><br />ColdStandinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08309476438059947636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-30049739993674929712014-03-05T17:27:13.036+00:002014-03-05T17:27:13.036+00:00I don't know if I could remain a Catholic if H...I don't know if I could remain a Catholic if His Holiness followed H.E. Card. +Marx's proposals. De facto pronouncing all sacramental marriages to be invalid, or giving Holy Communion to those known to be in mortal sin with no intention of repenting; even if by technicality those errors are not protected by the Church's infallibility, I really don't think I could still believe the Catholic interpretation of Mt 16:18-19 if it went through. <br /><br />The CDF's hard-line on the matter is very reassuring to me, but I am suffering from terrible anxiety due to the rumors that Pope Francis is siding with Cardinal Marx.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00167443887449854135noreply@blogger.com