tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post7494156837172315457..comments2024-03-14T06:43:39.590+00:00Comments on LMS Chairman: A Catholic Approach to Fashion: Part 1 (Guest Post)Latin Mass Societyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17951084157414901564noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-54713995375107441042018-01-10T15:28:47.711+00:002018-01-10T15:28:47.711+00:00Dr. Shaw, your blog is a light in the shadow. Than...Dr. Shaw, your blog is a light in the shadow. Thank you for your approach on contemporary questions. It helps me so much.autorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07655219246274559604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-19392001493800600372014-06-25T11:36:43.225+01:002014-06-25T11:36:43.225+01:00Exactly.Exactly.Joseph Shawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06587987442560784792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-25271645858287660042014-06-24T10:46:00.343+01:002014-06-24T10:46:00.343+01:00I think the point that was being made is that the ...I think the point that was being made is that the logical conclusion of the attitude that is cited here is that we cannot go to the beach because it would be immodest to wear things which are traditionally worn at the beach (or we could, but we'd have to wear the same things that are worn at a funeral). I think that this is not what the author of this post is saying. She was just citing that attitude as one which is mistaken. <br /><br />I think she is saying, and I definitely agree with her, that something can be appropriate for a funeral but not appropriate or practical or comfortable for the beach. Similarly, something can be entirely appropriate for the beach (a swimming costume, for example), but you wouldn't be caught dead (excuse the pun!) in it at a funeral. This applies for exercise too! Correct me if I'm wrong...<br /><br />A wonderful post. This is just what I need to read! Rhoslynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11974106206703455204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-76668915968804849752014-06-22T00:17:11.582+01:002014-06-22T00:17:11.582+01:00Another thing I do want to say, uniformity is not ...Another thing I do want to say, uniformity is not exactly a sin. But, your fear that having rules will lead to uniformity might be misplaced. <br /><br />Because you see, the rules offer much room to play around with. In cultures where one does not try to achieve "variation" through dropping the neck line or lowering the skirt length, the variation is achieved by doing a lot of work on the dresses. Some will choose different designs (does the gown hang straight down, puff, frills, shades of different colors, one piece or two piece, belt designs etc), embroider work, different colors. <br /><br />The picture you presented in that sense does a bit of injustice. There are much more variations to be had than what you see in that picture within those set of rules. Eufrosniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15111736255529574527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-36063663800213229942014-06-22T00:03:18.401+01:002014-06-22T00:03:18.401+01:00Great analysis Dr. Shaw!
If I may make a suggesti...Great analysis Dr. Shaw!<br /><br />If I may make a suggestion, I think the initial problem you have presented is due to the fact that modesty is rooted in culture just as much as the term you described as pudicy is rooted in culture.<br /><br />The "rules" on how to dress modestly develop in a culture as it strives to dress in a way that does not tempt others. Since each culture starts with a different dress as its starting point, you have rules that seem to differ in the end product by some margins. But essentially, you do see some agreement for sure between any two cultures that have striven to uphold modesty for sometime in it's society. <br /><br />Now the rules are developed through experience of the society. As feedback comes about, the dress rules are altered. This continues iteratively. So in such a culture, trying to find new fashions lead to exploration of new forms of dress based on the old as a basis. The sensibility that has developed in the culture acts as a self-correction of the fashions. The more older the culture, the more refined and even natural the sensibilities will be among its people.<br /><br />BUT, in our present Western culture (which is very young to begin with), there is no motive to dress modesty. In fact, it is actually the opposite that is sought. Since sexual pleasure is idolized, many things are designed toward achieving that end. So whether it be the clothes you wear, the way you walk, or even the way you look, they are all designed to be "sexy". <br /><br />So there is a break from the old natural development. <br /><br />The suggested rules in the books you cited are not actually mistaken in that sense. They are merely an effort to look back at a stage in history when the sensibilities toward modesty were stable and to infer a set of standards as a starting point in our present society. So you could say it is a marker to go back to and to start developing forward from that point. <br /><br />Now keeping the above in mind, making your starting point "beauty" might be an error. Because the nude form of the human body is very beautiful too. So how can one even argue that in striving to seek beauty, one may not reveal too much of it? If anything, it may even seem appropriate to reveal much of it. <br /><br />Striving to display beauty is the role of fashion design. But fashion design must start with a set of rules as a basis in its design. That basis is informed by culture and does have standards like "don't cut too deep", "not above the knees" and so forth. <br /><br />People in the 19th century didn't have trouble dressing modesty because they had developed the sensibilities with their culture. We have problems because we want to start from scratch or just have some other goal as the starting point (beauty, look sexy, save money etc). Eufrosniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15111736255529574527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-60467863054413394812014-06-21T21:56:37.219+01:002014-06-21T21:56:37.219+01:00Dress has always changed with fashion. Good tast...Dress has always changed with fashion. Good taste, particularly in church, is what should be observed. <br /> <br />Above all, ugliness and vulgarity is to be avoided. Tight leotards (or leggings or whatever they are called) with very short mini-skirts, (particularly where the wearer is somewhat over- weight), are out, as is open shirts to the belt and sun-tanned chests, with the blokes.<br />Jacobihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04743062941733814176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-80475232565700128652014-06-21T21:11:34.677+01:002014-06-21T21:11:34.677+01:00The "modestia" that Aquinas is talking a...The "modestia" that Aquinas is talking about is primarily humility in one's appearance, rather than vainglory, and is not about whether or not the clothes are alluring to the opposite sex... Virtue is in one's intention, not the effects one's acts produce upon others. Nakedness if innocent may be modest and virtuous.<br />My point is that this whole question is one of prudence rather than modesty: this might seem like nit-picking, but if "modesty" is subsumed under the heading of sexual sin, rather like the word "immorality" has been, one risks (eventually) impoverishing one's thinking. I should say that I enjoy your approach; but the now almost ubiquitous usage of the word modesty is I think very problematic - it puts the notion of virtue at the mercy of the (male) observer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-48563883676942576542014-06-21T17:37:26.279+01:002014-06-21T17:37:26.279+01:00Dear Guest-blogger Queen of Puddings and Joe Shaw,...Dear Guest-blogger Queen of Puddings and Joe Shaw, <br /><br />Thank you for linking to something that I wrote on Padre Pio. But would you be so kind as to change the link to the original blog-post on my blog? http://thepathlesstaken7.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/padre-pio-strict-with-women-who-wore.html<br /><br />You might also consider this post, Writing About Padre Pio: How it Influences Real Life. http://thepathlesstaken7.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/writing-about-padre-pio-pains-joys.html<br /><br />It contains an important point: 'Padre Pio told a woman in confession not to sell trousers in her shop...But we don’t know if the trousers that she planned to sell were…ordinary slacks…or hot pants!'<br /><br />God bless always<br /><br />Mary O'Regan<br /><br /><br /><br />Mary O'Reganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06111088825250138537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-4041557328517489842014-06-21T15:00:47.815+01:002014-06-21T15:00:47.815+01:00The best advice I received as a child was that you...The best advice I received as a child was that you do not go to Mass to draw attention to yourself. Gentyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569143943867323153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-22624897208945967352014-06-21T14:15:18.209+01:002014-06-21T14:15:18.209+01:00Also, this statement...
"And - the logical c...Also, this statement... <br />"And - the logical conclusion of this attitude - what would be immodest at a funeral Mass would be immodest on the beach."<br />...does not seem to be fair. I think the conclusion is not to go to the beach at all! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240853784955919805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-12946697515392467622014-06-21T13:47:25.465+01:002014-06-21T13:47:25.465+01:00I'd just like to point out another very diffic...I'd just like to point out another very difficult aspect of dress for Catholic women is constantly changing sizes from multiple pregnancies and how quickly our clothes are ruined from being around small children. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240853784955919805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30490922.post-82270497160342904592014-06-21T11:59:23.347+01:002014-06-21T11:59:23.347+01:00The jacket (circa 1957) appears to be modelled by ...The jacket (circa 1957) appears to be modelled by April Ashley.Patrick Sheridanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07995907911415177074noreply@blogger.com